A Good Hymn, the Triune God, and poetry in motion

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The photo has several times been requested by Margaret and I thought it might help overcome any sense that might arise from the rest of this post, that I have no sense of modern, contemporary fashion statements, whether in dress or in the liturgical activities of contemporary, cutting edge worship occasions.

No need for Andy (not Goodliff) to apologise for the last sentence in his comment on hymn and songbooks a couple of posts ago. This paragraph is by way of response to the implied uncertainty as to the value of hymn / song books. Now let me say, I ain’t defending "song" books. However, for me at least, Praise "song" doesn’t have the liturgical resonance of "hymn of praise". Hymns we sing to God – songs we sing to…whatever!? Now I don’t want to press the distinction – and my tongue is painfully embedded in my cheek – but if forced to choose as my main diet, between what is meant in worship circles by songs and what I mean by hymns, I wouldn’t choose the liturgical fast food. I’ll come back in a later post to my current research which is an Apologia on Behalf of Disappearing Hymnbooks.

More seriously, I think I’d like to explore some more the dynamic that is played out when congregational singing, other forms of music, when hymns and songs, words, images and sound come together in an act of worshipping together. I mean the dynamic between those whose musical gifts are invited to accompany, enable, support, even lead, the praise of God’s people, and how in many contemporary contexts the praise band is now accompanied by the congregation. I mean the inner dynamic between one person’s spiritual experience, and the diet of worship songs / hymns on offer to express, enrich, deepen, challenge that experience. I mean that inner and also social dynamic of singing together, merging voices, as a community gives voice (singular) to the praise of God, in words that have to be spiritually accessible, theologically coherent, emotionally congruous.

Long sentence looming. I mean also that difficult to define something that happens, when truth is expressed in artfully crafted phrases, joined together as a richly textured response of mind, heart and will, to the God who is the recipient of worship, and then set to music which is evocative, provocative or otherwise capable of being the vehicle for such spiritual truthfulness, and then played by instrumentalists and singers, content to be the means to the great end of enabling the worship of the whole people of God gathered in this place, until finally, be it song or hymn, the people of God are indeed, enabled, supported, accompanied, in praise which is the collaborative, co-operative offering, of all God’s people, to the Triune God into whose eternal dance of loving, holy purpose, we are invited to particpate.

In that sense a true hymn truly sung, would be poetry in motion!

Comments

16 responses to “A Good Hymn, the Triune God, and poetry in motion”

14 September 2007

andy goodliff

Jim, just to say the andy that commented on earlier posted wasn’t me, but I enjoyed your response in this post nonetheless

Reply
14 September 2007

andy goodliff

Jim, just to say the andy that commented on earlier posted wasn’t me, but I enjoyed your response in this post nonetheless

Reply
14 September 2007

Jim Gordon

Sorry Andy Goodliff – so who’s the other Andy? I’ve removed the Goodliffian reference and apologise for attribution of comments to wrong Andy. Glad the actual Andy who left the comment visited and entered the conversation…which is probably going to continue!

Reply
14 September 2007

Jim Gordon

Sorry Andy Goodliff – so who’s the other Andy? I’ve removed the Goodliffian reference and apologise for attribution of comments to wrong Andy. Glad the actual Andy who left the comment visited and entered the conversation…which is probably going to continue!

Reply
14 September 2007

stuart blythe

It wisnae me either – but you would know that because I am not called Andy but Stuart

Reply
14 September 2007

stuart blythe

It wisnae me either – but you would know that because I am not called Andy but Stuart

Reply
14 September 2007

jim gordon

Careful Stuart – Andy Stewart isn’t a nomenclature you would easily live down!

Reply
14 September 2007

jim gordon

Careful Stuart – Andy Stewart isn’t a nomenclature you would easily live down!

Reply
15 September 2007

Catriona

Reading your post reminded me of somehting I read a couple of years back on the 17th century deabte (polite description thereof) among English Particular Baptists over the singing of hymns. Aside from the concerns over their being a “humane invention” and the use of “preprinted formes” as decidely iffy, one of the concerns was over who who sang and who joined in. Marlow, who didn’t like this singing stuff, could just about tolerate a solist singing a psalm whilst Keach, the advocate (and writer of diabolic drivel) was keen for whole congregations to sing together.
One of the hair-splitting debates was over whether or not as yet non-believers could be permitted to sing. Marlow was admant that Christains should not sing withunbeleivers; Keach reckoned that the unbelievers joined in with the believers (reminds me of the praying while drinking tea question, but that’s another story). The question you rightly raise about the authenticity of the worship through singing was a big thing for these men.
The other much more contemporary story that comes to mind is that behind the song by Matt Redman “When the music fades,” which I understand was written after a minister had had the courage to ban singing in services until the people had grasped something of what worship really was about.
Sorry, this is long and waffly. I have to confess that in my congregation I tend to refer to newer stuff as ‘songs’ because there are folk who on principle don’t like “choruses” but assure me newer stuff is not “hymns.” Maybe the apostle Paul anticipated all this with his refernece to “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs’ giving us an ambiguity we’ve lived with ever since?!

Reply
15 September 2007

Catriona

Reading your post reminded me of somehting I read a couple of years back on the 17th century deabte (polite description thereof) among English Particular Baptists over the singing of hymns. Aside from the concerns over their being a “humane invention” and the use of “preprinted formes” as decidely iffy, one of the concerns was over who who sang and who joined in. Marlow, who didn’t like this singing stuff, could just about tolerate a solist singing a psalm whilst Keach, the advocate (and writer of diabolic drivel) was keen for whole congregations to sing together.
One of the hair-splitting debates was over whether or not as yet non-believers could be permitted to sing. Marlow was admant that Christains should not sing withunbeleivers; Keach reckoned that the unbelievers joined in with the believers (reminds me of the praying while drinking tea question, but that’s another story). The question you rightly raise about the authenticity of the worship through singing was a big thing for these men.
The other much more contemporary story that comes to mind is that behind the song by Matt Redman “When the music fades,” which I understand was written after a minister had had the courage to ban singing in services until the people had grasped something of what worship really was about.
Sorry, this is long and waffly. I have to confess that in my congregation I tend to refer to newer stuff as ‘songs’ because there are folk who on principle don’t like “choruses” but assure me newer stuff is not “hymns.” Maybe the apostle Paul anticipated all this with his refernece to “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs’ giving us an ambiguity we’ve lived with ever since?!

Reply
15 September 2007

andy goodliff

Worship songs/hymns are all of varying quality and I have been one who is quick to sigh at the banal music of recent years (there’s simply too much that quality suffers). There is also a question of relevance, should our sung worship connect with those singing it? In the main I struggle to connect with many hymns (the pace, the tunes), despite enjoying their lyrical poetry and ability to express theologically.

Reply
15 September 2007

andy goodliff

Worship songs/hymns are all of varying quality and I have been one who is quick to sigh at the banal music of recent years (there’s simply too much that quality suffers). There is also a question of relevance, should our sung worship connect with those singing it? In the main I struggle to connect with many hymns (the pace, the tunes), despite enjoying their lyrical poetry and ability to express theologically.

Reply
17 September 2007

Andy P

It was me – sorry to cause confusion. Jim, I agree with much of what you say. In practice, the challenge for me as the one responsible for planning worship is to make the whole service one which is “spiritually accessible, theologically coherent, emotionally congruous,” recognising that different people respond to different things and what is evocative or provocative to one might not be to another.
For me, it is important that the hymns/songs fit within the context of the whole worship event. I’m not into the gratitous use of songs ‘just because we like them.’ Do they fit? Do they add to the flow of the service? What about a mix of moods? Do the hymns/songs complement whatever else is going on?
On Sunday, I pared ‘Father God, I wonder’ with ‘Come see the Lord in his breathtaking splendour’ just before communion. One I would characterise as a song, it is simple, popular and invites one sort of response; the other is definitely a hymn (although being contemporary) and much more weighty. One speaks of intimacy, the other of awe. One encourages a personal response, the other proclaims the Lordship of Christ whilst reflecting on incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. I thought that they complemented each other admirably.
It also seems to me that at least some of what you say about music is also applicable to the rest of our public worship. Oh to hear prayers and sermons which are “spiritually accessible, theologically coherent, emotionally congruous,” and in which “truth is expressed in artfully crafted phrases.” But, of course, that widens the debate further 🙂
One further point. I am aware that hymns I sung as a child (and as an adult) have accompanied me through life and are in some ways deeply embedded in my experience (‘Thine be the glory,’ which we also sung on Sunday, for instance). One of the advantages of this is that in times of spiritual struggle, I have a resource which is not merely theological or experiential but much deeper to draw from. I worry whether with the constantly changing menu of songs that is sung today whereby the average ‘shelf life’ of a song seems to get shorter and shorter, we are actually depriving the next generation of a similar resource. In some circles, it seems that the spiritual vitality of a congregation is measured by whether or not they are singing the latest worship ‘hit.’ Perhaps, the need to be at the cutting edge of worship is a sign of spiritual poverty? Discuss!

Reply
17 September 2007

Andy P

It was me – sorry to cause confusion. Jim, I agree with much of what you say. In practice, the challenge for me as the one responsible for planning worship is to make the whole service one which is “spiritually accessible, theologically coherent, emotionally congruous,” recognising that different people respond to different things and what is evocative or provocative to one might not be to another.
For me, it is important that the hymns/songs fit within the context of the whole worship event. I’m not into the gratitous use of songs ‘just because we like them.’ Do they fit? Do they add to the flow of the service? What about a mix of moods? Do the hymns/songs complement whatever else is going on?
On Sunday, I pared ‘Father God, I wonder’ with ‘Come see the Lord in his breathtaking splendour’ just before communion. One I would characterise as a song, it is simple, popular and invites one sort of response; the other is definitely a hymn (although being contemporary) and much more weighty. One speaks of intimacy, the other of awe. One encourages a personal response, the other proclaims the Lordship of Christ whilst reflecting on incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. I thought that they complemented each other admirably.
It also seems to me that at least some of what you say about music is also applicable to the rest of our public worship. Oh to hear prayers and sermons which are “spiritually accessible, theologically coherent, emotionally congruous,” and in which “truth is expressed in artfully crafted phrases.” But, of course, that widens the debate further 🙂
One further point. I am aware that hymns I sung as a child (and as an adult) have accompanied me through life and are in some ways deeply embedded in my experience (‘Thine be the glory,’ which we also sung on Sunday, for instance). One of the advantages of this is that in times of spiritual struggle, I have a resource which is not merely theological or experiential but much deeper to draw from. I worry whether with the constantly changing menu of songs that is sung today whereby the average ‘shelf life’ of a song seems to get shorter and shorter, we are actually depriving the next generation of a similar resource. In some circles, it seems that the spiritual vitality of a congregation is measured by whether or not they are singing the latest worship ‘hit.’ Perhaps, the need to be at the cutting edge of worship is a sign of spiritual poverty? Discuss!

Reply
17 September 2007

Margaret

Yeah!!!!! The hat picture returns!!

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17 September 2007

Margaret

Yeah!!!!! The hat picture returns!!

Reply